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<northWind> we need to work out a proposal
<tdot> i liked the idea ljubo told me yesterday
<northWind> essentially a 250 word informal desc. of game idea + bunch of pics
<tdot> lol
<tdot> how do we get pics of a non-existant game
<northWind> i got the pics handled
<northWind> like, story board
<tdot> lol
<tdot> do we even know what we are doing in gam666
<northWind> well
<northWind> the last idea we all seemed to agree on was like a rolling ball
puzzle game
<tdot> yes
<tdot> that sounds good
<ljubo> I like that idea a lot
<ljubo> I was thinking
<ljubo> maybe as an alternative to having the board tilt
<northWind> ok?
<northWind> we like alternatives lol
<ljubo> perhaps having a ball that can be moved and turned with the keys
<ljubo> like a person
<northWind> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<tdot> yes northWind likes alternative loving
<ljubo> or a 'remote control ball'
<ljubo> and
<northWind> thats cool
<tdot> well we can probably do both
<ljubo> kinda 'third person' view
<tdot> the input is going to be the least of our problems
<northWind> yeah
<northWind> ok
<ljubo> so you don't see the whole maze
<CloudScorpion> just throwing this out there, does this proposal have to our
plans for the framework changes y/n?
<tdot> yes
<northWind> so maybe you can apply force on the board and you can tilt the
board?
<tdot> thats ljubo's idea i liked
<tdot> if its kinda like 3rd person following the ball
<CloudScorpion> have to have*
<tdot> so you can get lost in the maze
<ljubo> yeah
<northWind> ok so you want a maze that you can get lost in
<ljubo> you can get lost
<ljubo> but
<ljubo> we put objects around
<ljubo> so you learn your way
<ljubo> like
<ljubo> "I've been down there before and it was a dead end"
<ljubo> "I recognize that object - I'll try going right this time instead
of left"
<northWind> hmmm i may not like the idea of more than very few objects
<northWind> and thats just because we don't have time to make models
<tdot> lol no
<tdot> northWind
<tdot> there are many free models online
<tdot> as long as we don't animate them
<tdot> its pretty fucking simple to do
<ljubo> I'm thinking simple things
<ljubo> pictures on the wall
<ljubo> a lamp
<northWind> hmmm interesting
<ljubo> chandelier
<northWind> in this case, the idea of the game would be to navigate the map
<tdot> maybe also include elements for the other type
<tdot> like traps you can fall into
<ljubo> it would be like you are walking through a maze/labrinth
<northWind> in the original idea w/ a tilting board, the idea is to avoid
obstacles and to avoid falling off board or falling into holes
<northWind> yeah
<northWind> so
<tdot> could combine both
<northWind> which type of gameplay do we like better
<northWind> ok, then lets think about camera
<tdot> i think following the ball 3rd person sounds cool
<northWind> hmmm but our ball is not a very interesting model
<northWind> what if its a bit distant?
<tdot> northWind: couldn't we make it really interesting?
<tdot> lol
<northWind> lol
<northWind> suppose we can
<tdot> make it a high poly count ball and make it reflective
<northWind> how about this
<northWind> how much screen space will ball occupy
<tdot> if we are going to add some pixel shader support it shouldn't be
too hard to make the ball reflective
<northWind> well
<northWind> we can pretty it up
<northWind> but how much screen space does ball take up
<tdot> lol
<tdot> no idea
<northWind> cuz thats going to determine dist. from camera
<tdot> maybe its variable?
<tdot> i mean you cant n64 it and get the camera stuck in a wall
<northWind> ok, so like mouse wheel?
<tdot> or distance/direction/speed based
<northWind> well as long as walls aren't too high, we should be ok
<northWind> and I like distance/direction/speed based
<northWind> guys any other ideas?
<tdot> cloud hasnt been saying anything
<tdot> it would be cool if like
<tdot> some parts of the map had walls and some didn't
<tdot> so you'd have to drive carefully
<tdot> or you'd fall off
<northWind> yep, i assumed we'd do that so i def. approve
<northWind> maybe some parts of board are not flat
<tdot> that too
<tdot> well
<tdot> maybe
<northWind> so like tilted to one side and the bottom side would have no
walls or something
<tdot> thats gonna increase the difficulty of coding it
<northWind> hmmm true
<northWind> maybe
<tdot> if its one level and flat
<northWind> unless our rb collision kicks in
<tdot> the actual game code isn't gonna be hard
<tdot> all you really need is 2d collision detection
<tdot> and some very simple 2d physics
<tdot> if you start designing curves and tilted areas
<tdot> youre gonna need to start coding 3d collision detection and
3d physics
<ljubo> one thing I like about this idea in general
<ljubo> is that we can set some very simple mile-stones
<ljubo> 1st mile-stone) get a ball rolling in a room
<northWind> thing is, we may be able to get away w/ levels made in 3ds max
<tdot> and before you know it, 75% of our work will be on that
<tdot> lol northWind thats not the point
<northWind> ljubo: yeah I agree
<northWind> tdot: our work's gotta go somewhere
<tdot> lol yeah
<tdot> into a simple, workable, polished game
<ljubo> northWind: we can have a wish-list of features that we can
implement after we hit the first mile-stone
<northWind> lol polished? rujoking?
<tdot> no
<tdot> i think it would be actually easier to polish the game
<northWind> ljubo: wishlist is a good idea, lets not go crazy tho
<ljubo> no need to go crazy… we hit the 1st mile-stone, see
how much time we have left, decide what is the next thing
we should try, and keep adjusting the wishlist based on what seems
realistic - and keep reevaluating as we go - but always
setting achievable mile-stones along the way.
<tdot> then to attempt to make curves/hills
<northWind> tdot: hmmm depends on the type of collision in the game
<tdot> to make like shadowing, and reflections
<northWind> anyway thats very specific
<northWind> we dont need to think about that yet i dont think
<ljubo> remember what chris szalvinsky said
<northWind> CloudScorpion: you there cloud?
<ljubo> we could spend hours researching and trying to implement something
<ljubo> even start coding it
<ljubo> and if it does not work
<ljubo> it counts as research
<ljubo> and we get marks for it
<tdot> lol hmm
<northWind> ok then it sounds like we have a number of ideas already
<northWind> lets think about what we need for tmrw
<tdot> well all i know is if we keep the levels simple
<northWind> we need 250 words, informal, rough description of game
<tdot> its only really a 2d map with 2d math
<ljubo> I can draft a general proposal EAC397 style
<tdot> its just drawn as 3d
<tdot> that would make it pretty simple for us to work with
<northWind> i think the game will have to be 3d honestly
<ljubo> 250 is nothing
<northWind> ljubo: indeed
<tdot> northWind: not really
<northWind> ljubo: I got the pics/slideshow, do you want to do the
informal desc?
<tdot> the *game* has to be 3d
<tdot> the map and physics and collision doesnt have to be
<northWind> tdot: I mean 3d gameplay
<tdot> i dont think so
<tdot> i dont see why its required
<northWind> tdot: I think that you can only get so far w/ 2d gameplay
<tdot> 'so far'?
<northWind> tdot: especially in a rolling ball game w/ a tilting board
<tdot> thats sort of the point
<tdot> so we can end up with something polished
<CloudScorpion> lol, you kids seem to be chatting it up just fine,
I'm cooking dinner :p
<tdot> something that looks and plays decent
<ljubo> northWind: sure I can do the proposal
<tdot> if we attempt to make '3d gameplay' we will end up with a
nice prototype of a very shitty 3d engine
<northWind> tdot: like what im saying is, how do you do w/
only 2d math with a game that involves a ball rolling on a
board thats tilting in 3 dimensions?
<tdot> lol
<tdot> simple
<tdot> just increase the balls velocity by the direction
its being tilted
<northWind> ljubo: k cool, so lets work based on that, use the
ideas that we developed here, do you approve of them?
<northWind> ???
<northWind> tdot: it needs to fall off board
* ljubo aproves
<tdot> and the map would be a 2d grid of tiles, with special
tiles for 3d
<ljubo> I will copy the irc chat and draft proposal tonight
<tdot> northWind: yep, when it hits a tile it can fall off of
(which is a simple 2d calculation) it can fall thru
<ljubo> I'll email it to all
<ljubo> and tomorrow you can comment
<northWind> ljubo: ok
<ljubo> early in the morning
<tdot> its still all going to be rendered in 3d
<ljubo> and I'll have it ready by early afternoon
<ljubo> is that ok, or do we need it done for class?
<northWind> tdot: and what about when the board is like tilted
15 degrees and the ball needs to accumulate
velocity in the direction the board is tilted?
<tdot> lol
<northWind> ljubo: we need it done for 8 am
<tdot> what?
<tdot> you honestly cant figure out how to do that in 2d?
<ljubo> ok - then do you trust me to do it right without any
suggested revisions from group?
<northWind> ljubo: yes I do, I don't see how it can turn out badly
<tdot> how exactly does tilting it 15 degrees affect the
height of the ball *at all*
<northWind> ljubo: I'll be up long tonight, email whenever
<ljubo> northWind: cool - I'll do that ;)
<northWind> tdot: tilting the board? it affects it completely
<tdot> lol
<tdot> no it doesnt
<northWind> tdot: hold on, I think you may not know what I'm referring to
<tdot> the ball is still always against the ground
<tdot> its height is static
<northWind> guys, the game im thinking about is essentially this
<northWind> http://www.officegamespot.com/flashgames/tilt.htm
<cadecairos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQQZPQS0r8
<cadecairos> thats my rebuttal
<cadecairos> reBUTTal
<northWind> ljubo: just a sec
<tdot> lol thats nasty
<cadecairos> lmfao
<northWind> https://cs.senecac.on.ca/~gam666/pages/assignments/a1.html
<tdot> lol yeah exactly
<tdot> how is that game 3d
<tdot> its actually really shitty lol
<tdot> the physics and movement dont feel real at all
<northWind> yeah I agree
<northWind> it is shitty
<tdot> and yeah, thats 2d
<northWind> what I was thinking about is a game w/ like
multiple z levels in some places
<northWind> like you have to drop from one to another
<tdot> lol yeah
<tdot> then youre going to increase our development time by 10
<northWind> kind of like this guy over here
<northWind> http://www.java-gaming.com/game/3627/Roll_Ball/
<northWind> feel free to compare and contrast which is shittier lol
<tdot> we should do something in between the two
<tdot> anyways theyre probably both 2d
<tdot> all of the levels in the 2nd one are still on one dimension
<tdot> they just have the concept of height
<northWind> level 3 has ramps
<tdot> lol does it?
<northWind> im pretty sure they have 3d collision
<northWind> and in any case, chris said hes giving us collision
detection I believe so I don't have to do it
<tdot> meh
<tdot> for now, lets aim for the first one
<tdot> i guess if doing one like the 2nd is possible is really
completely up to what he gives us with the framework
<northWind> alright Im cool w/ that
<northWind> ljubo: get all that?
<tdot> lol im sure ljubo did
</pre>
<northWind> we need to work out a proposal
<tdot> i liked the idea ljubo told me yesterday
<northWind> essentially a 250 word informal desc. of game idea + bunch of pics
<tdot> lol
<tdot> how do we get pics of a non-existant game
<northWind> i got the pics handled
<northWind> like, story board
<tdot> lol
<tdot> do we even know what we are doing in gam666
<northWind> well
<northWind> the last idea we all seemed to agree on was like a rolling ball
puzzle game
<tdot> yes
<tdot> that sounds good
<ljubo> I like that idea a lot
<ljubo> I was thinking
<ljubo> maybe as an alternative to having the board tilt
<northWind> ok?
<northWind> we like alternatives lol
<ljubo> perhaps having a ball that can be moved and turned with the keys
<ljubo> like a person
<northWind> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<tdot> yes northWind likes alternative loving
<ljubo> or a 'remote control ball'
<ljubo> and
<northWind> thats cool
<tdot> well we can probably do both
<ljubo> kinda 'third person' view
<tdot> the input is going to be the least of our problems
<northWind> yeah
<northWind> ok
<ljubo> so you don't see the whole maze
<CloudScorpion> just throwing this out there, does this proposal have to our
plans for the framework changes y/n?
<tdot> yes
<northWind> so maybe you can apply force on the board and you can tilt the
board?
<tdot> thats ljubo's idea i liked
<tdot> if its kinda like 3rd person following the ball
<CloudScorpion> have to have*
<tdot> so you can get lost in the maze
<ljubo> yeah
<northWind> ok so you want a maze that you can get lost in
<ljubo> you can get lost
<ljubo> but
<ljubo> we put objects around
<ljubo> so you learn your way
<ljubo> like
<ljubo> "I've been down there before and it was a dead end"
<ljubo> "I recognize that object - I'll try going right this time instead
of left"
<northWind> hmmm i may not like the idea of more than very few objects
<northWind> and thats just because we don't have time to make models
<tdot> lol no
<tdot> northWind
<tdot> there are many free models online
<tdot> as long as we don't animate them
<tdot> its pretty fucking simple to do
<ljubo> I'm thinking simple things
<ljubo> pictures on the wall
<ljubo> a lamp
<northWind> hmmm interesting
<ljubo> chandelier
<northWind> in this case, the idea of the game would be to navigate the map
<tdot> maybe also include elements for the other type
<tdot> like traps you can fall into
<ljubo> it would be like you are walking through a maze/labrinth
<northWind> in the original idea w/ a tilting board, the idea is to avoid
obstacles and to avoid falling off board or falling into holes
<northWind> yeah
<northWind> so
<tdot> could combine both
<northWind> which type of gameplay do we like better
<northWind> ok, then lets think about camera
<tdot> i think following the ball 3rd person sounds cool
<northWind> hmmm but our ball is not a very interesting model
<northWind> what if its a bit distant?
<tdot> northWind: couldn't we make it really interesting?
<tdot> lol
<northWind> lol
<northWind> suppose we can
<tdot> make it a high poly count ball and make it reflective
<northWind> how about this
<northWind> how much screen space will ball occupy
<tdot> if we are going to add some pixel shader support it shouldn't be
too hard to make the ball reflective
<northWind> well
<northWind> we can pretty it up
<northWind> but how much screen space does ball take up
<tdot> lol
<tdot> no idea
<northWind> cuz thats going to determine dist. from camera
<tdot> maybe its variable?
<tdot> i mean you cant n64 it and get the camera stuck in a wall
<northWind> ok, so like mouse wheel?
<tdot> or distance/direction/speed based
<northWind> well as long as walls aren't too high, we should be ok
<northWind> and I like distance/direction/speed based
<northWind> guys any other ideas?
<tdot> cloud hasnt been saying anything
<tdot> it would be cool if like
<tdot> some parts of the map had walls and some didn't
<tdot> so you'd have to drive carefully
<tdot> or you'd fall off
<northWind> yep, i assumed we'd do that so i def. approve
<northWind> maybe some parts of board are not flat
<tdot> that too
<tdot> well
<tdot> maybe
<northWind> so like tilted to one side and the bottom side would have no
walls or something
<tdot> thats gonna increase the difficulty of coding it
<northWind> hmmm true
<northWind> maybe
<tdot> if its one level and flat
<northWind> unless our rb collision kicks in
<tdot> the actual game code isn't gonna be hard
<tdot> all you really need is 2d collision detection
<tdot> and some very simple 2d physics
<tdot> if you start designing curves and tilted areas
<tdot> youre gonna need to start coding 3d collision detection and
3d physics
<ljubo> one thing I like about this idea in general
<ljubo> is that we can set some very simple mile-stones
<ljubo> 1st mile-stone) get a ball rolling in a room
<northWind> thing is, we may be able to get away w/ levels made in 3ds max
<tdot> and before you know it, 75% of our work will be on that
<tdot> lol northWind thats not the point
<northWind> ljubo: yeah I agree
<northWind> tdot: our work's gotta go somewhere
<tdot> lol yeah
<tdot> into a simple, workable, polished game
<ljubo> northWind: we can have a wish-list of features that we can
implement after we hit the first mile-stone
<northWind> lol polished? rujoking?
<tdot> no
<tdot> i think it would be actually easier to polish the game
<northWind> ljubo: wishlist is a good idea, lets not go crazy tho
<ljubo> no need to go crazy… we hit the 1st mile-stone, see
how much time we have left, decide what is the next thing
we should try, and keep adjusting the wishlist based on what seems
realistic - and keep reevaluating as we go - but always
setting achievable mile-stones along the way.
<tdot> then to attempt to make curves/hills
<northWind> tdot: hmmm depends on the type of collision in the game
<tdot> to make like shadowing, and reflections
<northWind> anyway thats very specific
<northWind> we dont need to think about that yet i dont think
<ljubo> remember what chris szalvinsky said
<northWind> CloudScorpion: you there cloud?
<ljubo> we could spend hours researching and trying to implement something
<ljubo> even start coding it
<ljubo> and if it does not work
<ljubo> it counts as research
<ljubo> and we get marks for it
<tdot> lol hmm
<northWind> ok then it sounds like we have a number of ideas already
<northWind> lets think about what we need for tmrw
<tdot> well all i know is if we keep the levels simple
<northWind> we need 250 words, informal, rough description of game
<tdot> its only really a 2d map with 2d math
<ljubo> I can draft a general proposal EAC397 style
<tdot> its just drawn as 3d
<tdot> that would make it pretty simple for us to work with
<northWind> i think the game will have to be 3d honestly
<ljubo> 250 is nothing
<northWind> ljubo: indeed
<tdot> northWind: not really
<northWind> ljubo: I got the pics/slideshow, do you want to do the
informal desc?
<tdot> the *game* has to be 3d
<tdot> the map and physics and collision doesnt have to be
<northWind> tdot: I mean 3d gameplay
<tdot> i dont think so
<tdot> i dont see why its required
<northWind> tdot: I think that you can only get so far w/ 2d gameplay
<tdot> 'so far'?
<northWind> tdot: especially in a rolling ball game w/ a tilting board
<tdot> thats sort of the point
<tdot> so we can end up with something polished
<CloudScorpion> lol, you kids seem to be chatting it up just fine,
I'm cooking dinner :p
<tdot> something that looks and plays decent
<ljubo> northWind: sure I can do the proposal
<tdot> if we attempt to make '3d gameplay' we will end up with a
nice prototype of a very shitty 3d engine
<northWind> tdot: like what im saying is, how do you do w/
only 2d math with a game that involves a ball rolling on a
board thats tilting in 3 dimensions?
<tdot> lol
<tdot> simple
<tdot> just increase the balls velocity by the direction
its being tilted
<northWind> ljubo: k cool, so lets work based on that, use the
ideas that we developed here, do you approve of them?
<northWind> ???
<northWind> tdot: it needs to fall off board
* ljubo aproves
<tdot> and the map would be a 2d grid of tiles, with special
tiles for 3d
<ljubo> I will copy the irc chat and draft proposal tonight
<tdot> northWind: yep, when it hits a tile it can fall off of
(which is a simple 2d calculation) it can fall thru
<ljubo> I'll email it to all
<ljubo> and tomorrow you can comment
<northWind> ljubo: ok
<ljubo> early in the morning
<tdot> its still all going to be rendered in 3d
<ljubo> and I'll have it ready by early afternoon
<ljubo> is that ok, or do we need it done for class?
<northWind> tdot: and what about when the board is like tilted
15 degrees and the ball needs to accumulate
velocity in the direction the board is tilted?
<tdot> lol
<northWind> ljubo: we need it done for 8 am
<tdot> what?
<tdot> you honestly cant figure out how to do that in 2d?
<ljubo> ok - then do you trust me to do it right without any
suggested revisions from group?
<northWind> ljubo: yes I do, I don't see how it can turn out badly
<tdot> how exactly does tilting it 15 degrees affect the
height of the ball *at all*
<northWind> ljubo: I'll be up long tonight, email whenever
<ljubo> northWind: cool - I'll do that ;)
<northWind> tdot: tilting the board? it affects it completely
<tdot> lol
<tdot> no it doesnt
<northWind> tdot: hold on, I think you may not know what I'm referring to
<tdot> the ball is still always against the ground
<tdot> its height is static
<northWind> guys, the game im thinking about is essentially this
<northWind> http://www.officegamespot.com/flashgames/tilt.htm
<cadecairos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQQZPQS0r8
<cadecairos> thats my rebuttal
<cadecairos> reBUTTal
<northWind> ljubo: just a sec
<tdot> lol thats nasty
<cadecairos> lmfao
<northWind> https://cs.senecac.on.ca/~gam666/pages/assignments/a1.html
<tdot> lol yeah exactly
<tdot> how is that game 3d
<tdot> its actually really shitty lol
<tdot> the physics and movement dont feel real at all
<northWind> yeah I agree
<northWind> it is shitty
<tdot> and yeah, thats 2d
<northWind> what I was thinking about is a game w/ like
multiple z levels in some places
<northWind> like you have to drop from one to another
<tdot> lol yeah
<tdot> then youre going to increase our development time by 10
<northWind> kind of like this guy over here
<northWind> http://www.java-gaming.com/game/3627/Roll_Ball/
<northWind> feel free to compare and contrast which is shittier lol
<tdot> we should do something in between the two
<tdot> anyways theyre probably both 2d
<tdot> all of the levels in the 2nd one are still on one dimension
<tdot> they just have the concept of height
<northWind> level 3 has ramps
<tdot> lol does it?
<northWind> im pretty sure they have 3d collision
<northWind> and in any case, chris said hes giving us collision
detection I believe so I don't have to do it
<tdot> meh
<tdot> for now, lets aim for the first one
<tdot> i guess if doing one like the 2nd is possible is really
completely up to what he gives us with the framework
<northWind> alright Im cool w/ that
<northWind> ljubo: get all that?
<tdot> lol im sure ljubo did
</pre>