Mutalisk meeting sept 29

    <northWind>    we need to work out a proposal
    <tdot>    i liked the idea ljubo told me yesterday
    <northWind>    essentially a 250 word informal desc. of game idea + bunch of pics
    <tdot>    lol
    <tdot>    how do we get pics of a non-existant game
    <northWind>    i got the pics handled
    <northWind>    like, story board
    <tdot>    lol
    <tdot>    do we even know what we are doing in gam666
    <northWind>    well
    <northWind>    the last idea we all seemed to agree on was like a rolling ball
puzzle game
    <tdot>    yes
    <tdot>    that sounds good
    <ljubo>    I like that idea a lot
    <ljubo>    I was thinking
    <ljubo>    maybe as an alternative to having the board tilt
    <northWind>    ok?
    <northWind>    we like alternatives lol
    <ljubo>    perhaps having a ball that can be moved and turned with the keys
    <ljubo>    like a person
    <northWind>    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    <tdot>    yes northWind likes alternative loving
    <ljubo>    or a 'remote control ball'
    <ljubo>    and
    <northWind>    thats cool
    <tdot>    well we can probably do both
    <ljubo>    kinda 'third person' view
    <tdot>    the input is going to be the least of our problems
    <northWind>    yeah
    <northWind>    ok
    <ljubo>    so you don't see the whole maze
    <CloudScorpion>    just throwing this out there, does this proposal have to our
plans for the framework changes y/n?
    <tdot>    yes
    <northWind>    so maybe you can apply force on the board and you can tilt the
board?
    <tdot>    thats ljubo's idea i liked
    <tdot>    if its kinda like 3rd person following the ball
    <CloudScorpion>    have to have*
    <tdot>    so you can get lost in the maze
    <ljubo>    yeah
    <northWind>    ok so you want a maze that you can get lost in
    <ljubo>    you can get lost
    <ljubo>    but
    <ljubo>    we put objects around
    <ljubo>    so you learn your way
    <ljubo>    like
    <ljubo>    "I've been down there before and it was a dead end"
    <ljubo>    "I recognize that object - I'll try going right this time instead
of left"
    <northWind>    hmmm i may not like the idea of more than very few objects
    <northWind>    and thats just because we don't have time to make models
    <tdot>    lol no
    <tdot>    northWind
    <tdot>    there are many free models online
    <tdot>    as long as we don't animate them
    <tdot>    its pretty fucking simple to do
    <ljubo>    I'm thinking simple things
    <ljubo>    pictures on the wall
    <ljubo>    a lamp
    <northWind>    hmmm interesting
    <ljubo>    chandelier
    <northWind>    in this case, the idea of the game would be to navigate the map
    <tdot>    maybe also include elements for the other type
    <tdot>    like traps you can fall into
    <ljubo>    it would be like you are walking through a maze/labrinth
    <northWind>    in the original idea w/ a tilting board, the idea is to avoid
obstacles and to avoid falling off board or falling into holes
    <northWind>    yeah
    <northWind>    so
    <tdot>    could combine both
    <northWind>    which type of gameplay do we like better
    <northWind>    ok, then lets think about camera
    <tdot>    i think following the ball 3rd person sounds cool
    <northWind>    hmmm but our ball is not a very interesting model
    <northWind>    what if its a bit distant?
    <tdot>    northWind: couldn't we make it really interesting?
    <tdot>    lol
    <northWind>    lol
    <northWind>    suppose we can
    <tdot>    make it a high poly count ball and make it reflective
    <northWind>    how about this
    <northWind>    how much screen space will ball occupy
    <tdot>    if we are going to add some pixel shader support it shouldn't be
too hard to make the ball reflective
    <northWind>    well
    <northWind>    we can pretty it up
    <northWind>    but how much screen space does ball take up
    <tdot>    lol
    <tdot>    no idea
    <northWind>    cuz thats going to determine dist. from camera
    <tdot>    maybe its variable?
    <tdot>    i mean you cant n64 it and get the camera stuck in a wall
    <northWind>    ok, so like mouse wheel?
    <tdot>    or distance/direction/speed based
    <northWind>    well as long as walls aren't too high, we should be ok
    <northWind>    and I like distance/direction/speed based
    <northWind>    guys any other ideas?
    <tdot>    cloud hasnt been saying anything
    <tdot>    it would be cool if like
    <tdot>    some parts of the map had walls and some didn't
    <tdot>    so you'd have to drive carefully
    <tdot>    or you'd fall off
    <northWind>    yep, i assumed we'd do that so i def. approve
    <northWind>    maybe some parts of board are not flat
    <tdot>    that too
    <tdot>    well
    <tdot>    maybe
    <northWind>    so like tilted to one side and the bottom side would have no
walls or something
    <tdot>    thats gonna increase the difficulty of coding it
    <northWind>    hmmm true
    <northWind>    maybe
    <tdot>    if its one level and flat
    <northWind>    unless our rb collision kicks in
    <tdot>    the actual game code isn't gonna be hard
    <tdot>    all you really need is 2d collision detection
    <tdot>    and some very simple 2d physics
    <tdot>    if you start designing curves and tilted areas
    <tdot>    youre gonna need to start coding 3d collision detection and
3d physics
    <ljubo>    one thing I like about this idea in general
    <ljubo>    is that we can set some very simple mile-stones
    <ljubo>    1st mile-stone) get a ball rolling in a room
    <northWind>    thing is, we may be able to get away w/ levels made in 3ds max
    <tdot>    and before you know it, 75% of our work will be on that
    <tdot>    lol northWind thats not the point
    <northWind>    ljubo: yeah I agree
    <northWind>    tdot: our work's gotta go somewhere
    <tdot>    lol yeah
    <tdot>    into a simple, workable, polished game
    <ljubo>    northWind: we can have a wish-list of features that we can
implement after we hit the first mile-stone
    <northWind>    lol polished? rujoking?
    <tdot>    no
    <tdot>    i think it would be actually easier to polish the game
    <northWind>    ljubo: wishlist is a good idea, lets not go crazy tho
    <ljubo>    no need to go crazy… we hit the 1st mile-stone, see
how much time we have left, decide what is the next thing
we should try, and keep adjusting the wishlist based on what seems
realistic - and keep reevaluating as we go - but always
setting achievable mile-stones along the way.
    <tdot>    then to attempt to make curves/hills
    <northWind>    tdot: hmmm depends on the type of collision in the game
    <tdot>    to make like shadowing, and reflections
    <northWind>    anyway thats very specific
    <northWind>    we dont need to think about that yet i dont think
    <ljubo>    remember what chris szalvinsky said
    <northWind>    CloudScorpion: you there cloud?
    <ljubo>    we could spend hours researching and trying to implement something
    <ljubo>    even start coding it
    <ljubo>    and if it does not work
    <ljubo>    it counts as research
    <ljubo>    and we get marks for it
    <tdot>    lol hmm
    <northWind>    ok then it sounds like we have a number of ideas already
    <northWind>    lets think about what we need for tmrw
    <tdot>    well all i know is if we keep the levels simple
    <northWind>    we need 250 words, informal, rough description of game
    <tdot>    its only really a 2d map with 2d math
    <ljubo>    I can draft a general proposal EAC397 style
    <tdot>    its just drawn as 3d
    <tdot>    that would make it pretty simple for us to work with
    <northWind>    i think the game will have to be 3d honestly
    <ljubo>    250 is nothing
    <northWind>    ljubo: indeed
    <tdot>    northWind: not really
    <northWind>    ljubo: I got the pics/slideshow, do you want to do the
informal desc?
    <tdot>    the *game* has to be 3d
    <tdot>    the map and physics and collision doesnt have to be
    <northWind>    tdot: I mean 3d gameplay
    <tdot>    i dont think so
    <tdot>    i dont see why its required
    <northWind>    tdot: I think that you can only get so far w/ 2d gameplay
    <tdot>    'so far'?
    <northWind>    tdot: especially in a rolling ball game w/ a tilting board
    <tdot>    thats sort of the point
    <tdot>    so we can end up with something polished
    <CloudScorpion>    lol, you kids seem to be chatting it up just fine,
I'm cooking dinner :p
    <tdot>    something that looks and plays decent
    <ljubo>    northWind: sure I can do the proposal
    <tdot>    if we attempt to make '3d gameplay' we will end up with a
nice prototype of a very shitty 3d engine
    <northWind>    tdot: like what im saying is, how do you do w/
only 2d math with a game that involves a ball rolling on a
board thats tilting in 3 dimensions?
    <tdot>    lol
    <tdot>    simple
    <tdot>    just increase the balls velocity by the direction
its being tilted
    <northWind>    ljubo: k cool, so lets work based on that, use the
ideas that we developed here, do you approve of them?
    <northWind>    ???
    <northWind>    tdot: it needs to fall off board
    * ljubo    aproves
    <tdot>    and the map would be a 2d grid of tiles, with special
tiles for 3d
    <ljubo>    I will copy the irc chat and draft proposal tonight
    <tdot>    northWind: yep, when it hits a tile it can fall off of
(which is a simple 2d calculation) it can fall thru
    <ljubo>    I'll email it to all
    <ljubo>    and tomorrow you can comment
    <northWind>    ljubo: ok
    <ljubo>    early in the morning
    <tdot>    its still all going to be rendered in 3d
    <ljubo>    and I'll have it ready by early afternoon
    <ljubo>    is that ok, or do we need it done for class?
    <northWind>    tdot: and what about when the board is like tilted
15 degrees and the ball needs to accumulate
velocity in the direction the board is tilted?
    <tdot>    lol
    <northWind>    ljubo: we need it done for 8 am
    <tdot>    what?
    <tdot>    you honestly cant figure out how to do that in 2d?
    <ljubo>    ok - then do you trust me to do it right without any
suggested revisions from group?
    <northWind>    ljubo: yes I do, I don't see how it can turn out badly
    <tdot>    how exactly does tilting it 15 degrees affect the
height of the ball *at all*
    <northWind>    ljubo: I'll be up long tonight, email whenever
    <ljubo>    northWind: cool - I'll do that ;)
    <northWind>    tdot: tilting the board? it affects it completely
    <tdot>    lol
    <tdot>    no it doesnt
    <northWind>    tdot: hold on, I think you may not know what I'm referring to
    <tdot>    the ball is still always against the ground
    <tdot>    its height is static
    <northWind>    guys, the game im thinking about is essentially this
    <northWind>    http://www.officegamespot.com/flashgames/tilt.htm
    <cadecairos>    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQQZPQS0r8
    <cadecairos>    thats my rebuttal
    <cadecairos>    reBUTTal
    <northWind>    ljubo: just a sec
    <tdot>    lol thats nasty
    <cadecairos>    lmfao
    <northWind>    https://cs.senecac.on.ca/~gam666/pages/assignments/a1.html
    <tdot>    lol yeah exactly
    <tdot>    how is that game 3d
    <tdot>    its actually really shitty lol
    <tdot>    the physics and movement dont feel real at all
    <northWind>    yeah I agree
    <northWind>    it is shitty
    <tdot>    and yeah, thats 2d
    <northWind>    what I was thinking about is a game w/ like
multiple z levels in some places
    <northWind>    like you have to drop from one to another
    <tdot>    lol yeah
    <tdot>    then youre going to increase our development time by 10
    <northWind>    kind of like this guy over here
    <northWind>    http://www.java-gaming.com/game/3627/Roll_Ball/
    <northWind>    feel free to compare and contrast which is shittier lol
    <tdot>    we should do something in between the two
    <tdot>    anyways theyre probably both 2d
    <tdot>    all of the levels in the 2nd one are still on one dimension
    <tdot>    they just have the concept of height
    <northWind>    level 3 has ramps
    <tdot>    lol does it?
    <northWind>    im pretty sure they have 3d collision
    <northWind>    and in any case, chris said hes giving us collision
detection I believe so I don't have to do it
    <tdot>    meh
    <tdot>    for now, lets aim for the first one
    <tdot>    i guess if doing one like the 2nd is possible is really
completely up to what he gives us with the framework
    <northWind>    alright Im cool w/ that
    <northWind>    ljubo: get all that?
    <tdot>    lol im sure ljubo did